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Earl
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 677
Location: Victoria, KS
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 Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:14 am Post subject: May 5 VH |
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Must be a mistake !
Solution: Basics alone will solve it. Hidden triples was the greatest challenge.
Early Earl |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| I played the Type 2 UR (because it was there), but as I went along I thought that maybe basics alone would've done it. |
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crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I guess this is an example of a puzzle that is too hard for me to solve Because it lacks any wings. Here is far as I could get.
| Code: |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 1359 159 4 | 1378 178 6 | 2 58 1789 |
| 1269 169 269 | 1278 5 12478 | 79 3 146789 |
| 12356 8 7 | 123 24 9 | 14 45 146 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 7 56 26 | 8 246 3 | 14 9 145 |
| 256 3 1 | 26 9 24 | 8 7 45 |
| 89 4 89 | 5 17 17 | 3 6 2 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 468 67 3 | 9 26 278 | 5 1 478 |
| 1468 2 68 | 1678 3 5 | 79 48 4789 |
| 189 179 5 | 4 178 178 | 6 2 3 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
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Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| crunched wrote: | I guess this is an example of a puzzle that is too hard for me to solve Because it lacks any wings. Here is far as I could get.
| Code: |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 1359 159 4 | 1378 178 6 | 2 58 1789 |
| 1269 169 269 | 1278 5 12478 | 79 3 146789 |
| 12356 8 7 | 123 24 9 | 14 45 146 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 7 56 26 | 8 246 3 | 14 9 145 |
| 256 3 1 | 26 9 24 | 8 7 45 |
| 89 4 89 | 5 17 17 | 3 6 2 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 468 67 3 | 9 26 278 | 5 1 478 |
| 1468 2 68 | 1678 3 5 | 79 48 4789 |
| 189 179 5 | 4 178 178 | 6 2 3 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
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Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
on the contrary,
your grid has a x-wing on 4's
rows 2 and 5 |
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George Woods
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 304
Location: Dorset UK
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:47 am Post subject: or the W-wing |
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| after 7 moves (and recognisinga naked triplet) a W wing converts the puzzle to "medium"! |
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swando
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Surrey, BC. Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| a few x wings starting with 4 did it..Actually more of a Medium in hardness I found as no xy or xyz were needed.. But then again I hate hidden candidates found in some of the mediums! |
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arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| storm_norm wrote: | | crunched wrote: | I guess this is an example of a puzzle that is too hard for me to solve Because it lacks any wings. Here is far as I could get.
| Code: |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 1359 159 4 | 1378 178 6 | 2 58 1789 |
| 1269 169 269 | 1278 5 12478 | 79 3 146789 |
| 12356 8 7 | 123 24 9 | 14 45 146 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 7 56 26 | 8 246 3 | 14 9 145 |
| 256 3 1 | 26 9 24 | 8 7 45 |
| 89 4 89 | 5 17 17 | 3 6 2 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 468 67 3 | 9 26 278 | 5 1 478 |
| 1468 2 68 | 1678 3 5 | 79 48 4789 |
| 189 179 5 | 4 178 178 | 6 2 3 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
on the contrary,
your grid has a x-wing on 4's
rows 2 and 5 |
There is also a hidden pair in row 2 |
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crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh...Norm you are correct. The x wing on the 4s did it for me. I can't see a hidden pair in row 2. Can you elaborate?
| arkietech wrote: | | storm_norm wrote: | | crunched wrote: | I guess this is an example of a puzzle that is too hard for me to solve Because it lacks any wings. Here is far as I could get.
| Code: |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 1359 159 4 | 1378 178 6 | 2 58 1789 |
| 1269 169 269 | 1278 5 12478 | 79 3 146789 |
| 12356 8 7 | 123 24 9 | 14 45 146 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 7 56 26 | 8 246 3 | 14 9 145 |
| 256 3 1 | 26 9 24 | 8 7 45 |
| 89 4 89 | 5 17 17 | 3 6 2 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 468 67 3 | 9 26 278 | 5 1 478 |
| 1468 2 68 | 1678 3 5 | 79 48 4789 |
| 189 179 5 | 4 178 178 | 6 2 3 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
on the contrary,
your grid has a x-wing on 4's
rows 2 and 5 |
There is also a hidden pair in row 2 |
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arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| crunched wrote: | Ahhh...Norm you are correct. The x wing on the 4s did it for me. I can't see a hidden pair in row 2. Can you elaborate?
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There is a 48 in columns 6 and 9 of row 2 since it is nowhere else in row 2 r2c69 must be 48 so you can remove other candidates in r2c6 and r2c9 solving the puzzle. |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | There is a 48 in columns 6 and 9 of row 2 since it is nowhere else in row 2 r2c69 must be 48 so you can remove other candidates in r2c6 and r2c9 solving the puzzle. |
I can't spot hidden pairs, but I can often spot the complementary subsets. Since there's already an 8 in r4c4, remove the 8s from elsewhere in c4 and then in row 2 is the 12679 quint which leaves the 48 naked pair after eliminations. |
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cgordon
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 769
Location: ontario, canada
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I needed both the x-wing on 4 and the Type 2 UR. I rarely seem to find useful Type 2 URs and don't think I've ever spotted a Type 3 - though I wasn't sure whether there was the makings of a Type 3 for <14> in C79. Probably wasn't. |
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Ema Nymton
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Truly a challenging puzzle; as it should be.
[quote="arkietech"][quote="storm_norm"] | crunched wrote: | I guess this is an example of a puzzle that is too hard for me to solve Because it lacks any wings. Here is far as I could get.
| Code: |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 1359 159 4 | 1378 178 6 | 2 58 1789 |
| 1269 169 269 | 1278 5 12478 | 79 3 146789 |
| 12356 8 7 | 123 24 9 | 14 45 146 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 7 56 26 |? 8? 246 3 | 14 9 145 |
| 256 3 1 | 26 9 24 | 8 7 45 |
| 89 4 89 | 5 17 17 | 3 6 2 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 468 67 3 | 9 26 278 | 5 1 478 |
| 1468 2 68 | 1678 3 5 | 79 48 4789 |
| 189 179 5 | 4 178 178 | 6 2 3 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
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Please explain how you were able to determine '8' for r4c4. I cannot get there from here. Thank you in advance.
~@:o?
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arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Ema Nymton"].
Truly a challenging puzzle; as it should be.
[quote="arkietech"] | storm_norm wrote: | | crunched wrote: | I guess this is an example of a puzzle that is too hard for me to solve Because it lacks any wings. Here is far as I could get.
| Code: |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 1359 159 4 | 1378 178 6 | 2 58 1789 |
| 1269 169 269 | 1278 5 12478 | 79 3 146789 |
| 12356 8 7 | 123 24 9 | 14 45 146 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 7 56 26 |? 8? 246 3 | 14 9 145 |
| 256 3 1 | 26 9 24 | 8 7 45 |
| 89 4 89 | 5 17 17 | 3 6 2 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
| 468 67 3 | 9 26 278 | 5 1 478 |
| 1468 2 68 | 1678 3 5 | 79 48 4789 |
| 189 179 5 | 4 178 178 | 6 2 3 |
+---------------+----------------+--------------+
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Please explain how you were able to determine '8' for r4c4. I cannot get there from here. Thank you in advance.
~@ ?
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This puzzle was flawed from the start. But 8 is the only number that can go in r4c4.  |
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George Woods
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 304
Location: Dorset UK
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| why do you sya that This puzzle was flawed from the start?. It seems to me a pefectly valid puzzle - The key feature is the triples in col 5 that gives the 8 in Box 5, but also sets up |(for me anyway) the very obvious W-Wing in 24 giving 4 in r3c5 and hence a straightforwarsd solution! |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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here is another approach
this is the puzzle without any basics performed.
just to note that the 6 in r6c8 was a naked single
| Code: | +---------------+------------------+-----------------+
| 1359 159 4 | 1378 178 6 | 2 58 15789 |
| 1269 169 269 | 1278 5 12478 | 1479 3 146789 |
| 12356 8 7 | 123 124 9 | 14 456 1456 |
+---------------+------------------+-----------------+
| 7 56 268 | 1268 12468 3 | 14 9 1456 |
| 2569 3 1 | 26 2469 24 | 8 7 456 |
| 89 4 89 | 5 16789 178 | 13 6 2 |
+---------------+------------------+-----------------+
| 3468 67 368 | 9 2678 278 | 5 1 3478 |
| 14689 2 689 | 1678 3 1578 | 479 48 4789 |
| 1389 179 5 | 4 1278 1278 | 6 28 3789 |
+---------------+------------------+-----------------+ |
that naked single (6) r6c8 opens up the {8,9} naked pair in r6c13 which eliminates the 9 in r6c5, this leaves the hidden single 9 in r5c5.
the naked pair {1,4} in column 7 eliminates the 4 in r2c7
x-wing is left on 4's r25c69
those 4's eliminated from col 4 leaves only singles and naked pairs left to solve. |
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Ema Nymton
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Please be patient. I am trying to improve my skills with this 'devil's gift' of a game slowly. I am able to follow the line of reasoning and logic up to this point.
| Code: |
+---------------+------------------+----------------+
| 1359 159 4 | 1378 178 6 | 2 58 15789 |
| 1269 169 269 | 1278 5 12478 | 1479 3 146789 |
| 12356 8 7 | 123 124 9 | 14 45 1456 |
+---------------+------------------+----------------+
| 7 56 268 | 1268 12468 3 | 14 9 145 |
| 256 3 1 | 26 9 24 | 8 7 45 |
| 89 4 89 | 5 17 17 | 3 6 2 |
+---------------+------------------+----------------+
| 468 67 3 | 9 2678 278 | 5 1 478 |
| 14689 2 689 | 1678 3 5 | 79 48 4789 |
| 189 179 5 | 4 178 178 | 6 2 3 |
+---------------+------------------+----------------+
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Placing the '8' in - r4c4 - does not seem to follow any reason beyond guessing because an '8' seems to be able to go into -r4c5-.
~@:o?
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cgordon
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 769
Location: ontario, canada
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ema: There's a 178 triple in C5 - so the 8 can be removed from R4C5. |
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