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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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 Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:07 am Post subject: For Menneske Masochists |
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Did you notice that Menneske now has a Super Hard + category, where the ratings are generally 500+?
http://www.menneske.no/sudoku/eng/random.html?superhardplus=1
(I must admit, I don't know the criterion to be superhardplus, and I don't know how Menneske's rating works.)
Keith |
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arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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To hard for me! 
| Code: | *-----------*
|91.|...|7.8|
|...|.95|.41|
|.2.|1..|...|
|---+---+---|
|1.2|...|6..|
|...|..7|.9.|
|...|...|..4|
|---+---+---|
|6.4|..3|.5.|
|3..|4.2|...|
|...|56.|...|
*-----------*
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 9 1 5 | 236 234 46 | 7 236 8 |
| 78 3678 3678 | 23678 9 5 | 23 4 1 |
| 4 2 3678 | 1 378 68 | 59 36 59 |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 1 34789 2 | 389 3458 489 | 6 378 357 |
| 58 3468 368 | 2368 123458 7 | 12358 9 235 |
| 578 36789 36789 | 3689 2358 1689 | 2358 12378 4 |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 6 789 4 | 789 178 3 | 1289 5 279 |
| 3 5 1789 | 4 78 2 | 89 178 6 |
| 2 789 1789 | 5 6 189 | 4 1378 379 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
an x-wing and er got me here |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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1...x-wing 1
2...2 string kite on 2
gets the grid to here...
| Code: | .------------------------.------------------------.------------------------.
| 9 1 5 | 236 234 46 | 7 236 8 |
| 78 3678 3678 | 23678 9 5 | 23 4 1 |
| 4 2 3678 | 1 378 68 | 59 36 59 |
:------------------------+------------------------+------------------------:
| 1 34789 2 | 389 3458 489 | 6 378 357 |
| 58 3468 368 | 2368 123458 7 | 12358 9 235 |
| 578 36789 36789 | 3689 2358 1689 | 2358 12378 4 |
:------------------------+------------------------+------------------------:
| 6 789 4 | 789 178 3 | 1289 5 279 |
| 3 5 1789 | 4 78 2 | 89 178 6 |
| 2 789 1789 | 5 6 189 | 4 1378 379 |
'------------------------'------------------------'------------------------' |
3...(9=8)r8c7 - (8=7)r8c5 - (7)r3c5 = (7-3)r3c3 = (3)r2c23 - (3)r2c7 = (3)r13c8 - (3)r9c8 = (3)r9c9; r9c9 <> 9
4...(1)r7c5 = (78)r78c5 - {grp(78)=3}r3c5 - (3)r1c45 = (3-2)r1c8 = (2-1)r6c8 = (1)r5c7; r5c5 and r7c7 <> 1
5...(9=8)r8c7 - (8=7)r8c5 - (7)r3c5 = (7-3)r3c3 = (3)r2c23 - (3)r2c7 = hp(36)r13c8 - (2)r1c8 = (2)r6c9 - (2)r5c9 = (2)r7c9; r7c9 <> 9
6...m-wing {2,7}... (2=7)r7c9 - (7)r7c4 = (7-2)r2c4 = (2)r2c7; r7c7 <> 2
7...(7=8)r2c1 - (8=5)r5c1 - (5=3)r5c9 - (3)r6c7 = (3-2)r2c7 = (2)r2c4; r2c4 <> 7
the UR {1,7}r89c38 says that neither the 3 in r9c8 nor the 8 in r9c3 can both be false.
8...UR17[(3)r9c8 = (8)r9c3] - (8=3)r3c3; r3c8 <> 3 |
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arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Wow!  Nice work Norm |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| arkietech wrote: | | Wow! Nice work Norm |
thank you,
that was a very difficult puzzle. I had many more steps than listed, but I found that I could skip some steps with step 4.
if ttt is watching this thread, he would probably have fewer Eureka steps
for curiosity sake, this puzzle has a SE rating of 7.3, but according to SE, it solves it with one each of: x-wing, xyz-wing, turbot fish. then 20 forcing chains.
according to sudocue:
1 - x-wing
1 - xyz-wing
2 - ER
2 - xy-chain
4 - medusa bridge
5 - medusa complex
I have APE and Sudecoq turned off so I don't know if any of those could have been used in the solution. |
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ttt
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 42
Location: vietnam
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| storm_norm wrote: | | I had many more steps than listed |
Me too , too many bivalues and bilocations…
| storm_norm wrote: | | if ttt is watching this thread, he would probably have fewer Eureka steps |
I’m not sure about that, my path is similar with yours. My path based on considering ALS(678=3)r2c123 that relates to cell r5c9 but I can’t write as AIC so I tried to reduce r5c9 to bivalue (eliminate r5c9=2)
| Code: | *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 9 1 5 | 236 234 46 | 7 236 8 |
| 78 3678 3678 | 23678 9 5 | 23 4 1 |
| 4 2 3678 | 1 378 68 | 59 36 59 |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 1 34789 2 | 389 3458 489 | 6 378 357 |
| 58 3468 368 | 2368 123458 7 | 12358 9 235 |
| 578 36789 36789 | 23689 12358 1689 | 12358 12378 4 |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 6 789 4 | 789 178 3 | 1289 5 279 |
| 3 5 1789 | 4 178 2 | 189 178 6 |
| 2 789 1789 | 5 6 189 | 4 1378 379 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------* |
01: X-wing 1’s rc57 => r68c57<>1
02: (2)r7c9=(2)r7c7-(2)r2c7=(2-7)r2c4=(7)r7c4-(7=8)r8c5-(8=9)r8c7 => r7c9<>79, r7c9=2 (extended at r7c4)
03: (2)r2c4=(2-3)r2c7=(3)r56c7-(3=5)r5c9-(5=8)r5c1-(8=7)r2c1 => r2c4<>7, some sigles
From here can use storm_norm’s step 8 or:
04: (3=5)r6c5-(5)r4c5=(5)r4c9-(5=3)r5c9 => r6c7<>3, singles to the end
The shorter solution on using net (I’m not sure this Forum accept nets or not):
01: Present as Kraken cell: => r2c4<>7, some singles
| Code: | (2)r5c9-(2)r6c8=(2)r1c8-(2)r2c7=(2)r2c4
||
(3)r5c9-(3)r56c7=(3-2)r2c7=(2)r2c4
||
(5)r5c9-(5=8)r5c1-(8=7)r2c1 |
From here can use storm_norm’s step 8 or:
02: (3=5)r6c5-(5)r4c5=(5)r4c9-(5=3)r5c9 => r6c7<>3, singles to the end
ttt |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:18 am Post subject: Re: For Menneske Masochists |
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By the way, each time you click on this link, you will get a different random puzzle.
Keith |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| At least on his site, clicking on the Super Hard + link gets you a Super Hard puzzle. I wish the same could be said for the regular Super Hard, where it takes about 20 clicks to get a puzzle I want. |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Marty,
When you ask for a "Super Hard" and get a "Very Hard" instead, these can be quite tough puzzles.
I think there is a xx in his rating system. Try a few of these!
When you look for Super Hard puzzles, what rating are you usually looking for? I find that below 10 is usually a VH, and above 20, I do not bother.
Keith |
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