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Clement
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 1111
Location: Dar es Salaam Tanzania
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 Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: Free Press Nov 5, 2010 |
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| XY-Wing 23 35 25 eliminating 2 in r5c9 and a Finned X-Wing in 2 r34c29 removing 2 in r1c2 solves it. |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Free Press Nov 5, 2010 |
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| Clement wrote: | | XY-Wing 23 35 25 eliminating 2 in r5c9 and a Finned X-Wing in 2 r34c29 removing 2 in r1c2 solves it. |
Would you care to post it? |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Code: | Puzzle: FP110510
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . 6 . | . . 3 |
| . . . | . . . | . 7 4 |
| . . 7 | 8 . 4 | 9 6 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 3 . . | 7 1 . | 8 . . |
| . . 8 | . . . | 7 . . |
| . . 4 | . 5 . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 4 1 | 6 . 2 | . . . |
| 9 3 . | . . . | . . . |
| 6 . . | . 9 . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+ |
| Quote: | A couple of skyscrapers 2, 5 will do it.
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There is probably an easy one-stepper lurking in here. After basics:
Keith | Code: | +-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 4 125 9 | 15 6 7 | 125 8 3 |
| 8 6 3 | 9 2 15 | 15 7 4 |
| 25 125 7 | 8 3 4 | 9 6 125 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 3 25 6 | 7 1 9 | 8 4 25 |
| 125 9 8 | 23 4 6 | 7 35 125 |
| 12 7 4 | 23 5 8 | 123 9 6 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 7 4 1 | 6 8 2 | 35 35 9 |
| 9 3 25 | 4 7 15 | 6 12 8 |
| 6 8 25 | 15 9 3 | 4 12 7 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+ |
Keith |
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Clement
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 1111
Location: Dar es Salaam Tanzania
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:16 pm Post subject: Free Press Nov 5, 2010 |
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Marty Wrote
Would you care to post it
After the Basics
| Code: | 4 125 9 | 15 6 7 | 125 8 3 |
| 8 6 3 | 9 2 15 | 15 7 4 |
| 25 125# 7 | 8 3 4 | 9 6 125# |
+------------+---------+------------+
| 3 25# 6 | 7 1 9 | 8 4 25#* |
| 125 9 8 | 23* 4 6 | 7 35* 125 |
| 12 7 4 | 23 5 8 | 123 9 6 |
+------------+---------+------------+
| 7 4 1 | 6 8 2 | 35 35 9 |
| 9 3 25 | 4 7 15 | 6 12 8 |
| 6 8 25 | 15 9 3 | 4 12 7 |
+------------+---------+------------+
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I could not solve it by using the XY-Wing* or the Finned X-Wing# in 2 alone. Any other alternative? |
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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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There is a finned X-Wing r34\c29 for <2> and for <5>. Together, they crack the puzzle through r1c2<>2 and r1c2<>5.
If you miss them (like I originally did), then you might have encountered:
| Code: | <25> RP r4c92,r53c1 => r3c9<>25
fin: (1)r5c1 - r5c9 = (1-25)r3c9
+------------------------------------------------------+
| 4 125 9 | 15 6 7 | 125 8 3 |
| 8 6 3 | 9 2 15 | 15 7 4 |
| d25 125 7 | 8 3 4 | 9 6 1-25 |
|------------------+-----------------+-----------------|
| 3 b25 6 | 7 1 9 | 8 4 a25 |
| c25+1 9 8 | 23 4 6 | 7 35 125 |
| 12 7 4 | 23 5 8 | 123 9 6 |
|------------------+-----------------+-----------------|
| 7 4 1 | 6 8 2 | 35 35 9 |
| 9 3 25 | 4 7 15 | 6 12 8 |
| 6 8 25 | 15 9 3 | 4 12 7 |
+------------------------------------------------------+
# 32 eliminations remain
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| W-Wing (25) in r3c1 and r4c9. Strong link (5) in row 5 and strong link (2) in column 2; r3c9<>25, same result as Danny's Remote Pairs. |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| daj95376 wrote: | There is a finned X-Wing r34\c29 for <2> and for <5>. Together, they crack the puzzle through r1c2<>2 and r1c2<>5.
If you miss them (like I originally did), then you might have encountered:
| Code: | <25> RP r4c92,r53c1 => r3c9<>25
fin: (1)r5c1 - r5c9 = (1-25)r3c9
+------------------------------------------------------+
| 4 125 9 | 15 6 7 | 125 8 3 |
| 8 6 3 | 9 2 15 | 15 7 4 |
| d25 125 7 | 8 3 4 | 9 6 1-25 |
|------------------+-----------------+-----------------|
| 3 b25 6 | 7 1 9 | 8 4 a25 |
| c25+1 9 8 | 23 4 6 | 7 35 125 |
| 12 7 4 | 23 5 8 | 123 9 6 |
|------------------+-----------------+-----------------|
| 7 4 1 | 6 8 2 | 35 35 9 |
| 9 3 25 | 4 7 15 | 6 12 8 |
| 6 8 25 | 15 9 3 | 4 12 7 |
+------------------------------------------------------+
# 32 eliminations remain
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I likes...
... a lot. |
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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I found it interesting to look at these moves from a 'broken wing' perspective (which I have been exploring recently!)
A number of single-step moves can be derived from this view - including all the ones mentioned so far in this post.
| Code: | Consider this potential broken wing pattern on 5...
*-----------------------------------------------------*
| 4 125 9 | 15 6 7 | 125 8 3 |
| 8 6 3 | 9 2 15 | 15 7 4 |
| *25 &-125 7 | 8 3 4 | 9 6 *(1)25 |
|-----------------+----------------+------------------|
| 3 *25 6 | 7 1 9 | 8 4 *25 |
| *125 9 8 | 23 4 6 | 7 35 &-125 |
| 12 7 4 | 23 5 8 | 123 9 6 |
|-----------------+----------------+------------------|
| 7 4 1 | 6 8 2 | 35 35 9 |
| 9 3 25 | 4 7 15 | 6 12 8 |
| 6 8 25 | 15 9 3 | 4 12 7 |
*-----------------------------------------------------*
Broken wing(5) marked with *; guardians with & |
Guardians (5)r3c2=(5)r5c9 - but note that these cells are also related via strong-links to (1)r3c9 (essentially Danny's fin chain).
| Code: | | Broken-wing(5)[(5)r3c2=r5c9] - (1)r5c9=r3c9 - (1)r3c2 ; r3c2<>1, r5c9<>1 |
Essentially at least one of them must be a (5) and so neither of them can be a (1)!
Danny and Martys dual elimination of (25)r3c9 also neatly comes from the two guardians and the adjacent (25) pairs..
| Code: | *------------------------------------------------------*
| 4 125 9 | 15 6 7 | 125 8 3 |
| 8 6 3 | 9 2 15 | 15 7 4 |
| *(25) &125 7 | 8 3 4 | 9 6 *1-25 |
|------------------+----------------+------------------|
| 3 *25 6 | 7 1 9 | 8 4 *(25) |
| *125 9 8 | 23 4 6 | 7 35 &125 |
| 12 7 4 | 23 5 8 | 123 9 6 |
|------------------+----------------+------------------|
| 7 4 1 | 6 8 2 | 35 35 9 |
| 9 3 25 | 4 7 15 | 6 12 8 |
| 6 8 25 | 15 9 3 | 4 12 7 |
*------------------------------------------------------*
(2=5)r3c1 - Broken-wing(5)[(5)r3c2=r5c9]* - (5=2)r4c9 ; *r3c9<>5, r3c9<>2 |
I dont think it adds anything very much more than has already been noted, but just an alternative view point I guess! |
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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Peter,
Although you were able to place the guardian cells into a strong link this time, that's not how I think of guardian cells. Also, it won't work if there are more than two cells. For me, guardian cells follow forcing chain logic, and forcing chains aren't sensitive to the number of cells.
| Code: | Guardian cell #1 stream: (5-1)r3c2 = (1-25)r3c9
Guardian cell #2 stream: (5-1)r5c9 = (1-25)r3c9
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Regards, Danny |
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| daj95376 wrote: | | Although you were able to place the guardian cells into a strong link this time, that's not how I think of guardian cells. |
We all seem happy to use a strong link created by a UR or ADP as part of a chain - what is the difference with a Broken Wing where there are two guardians?
Of course if there are more than it starts to look like Kraken cell/row/region type logic - or the ADP forcing chain logic that Ted and Marty explore a lot.
I've just been exploring these moves a bit for fun - my conclusion is they rarely seem worth the effort, sometimes they short-cut a couple of turbot/fish moves, sometimes they give you a starting point for some Kraken/forcing chain type logic much like ADPs, sometimes they give you a strong link to play with... |
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