| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
|
 Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: One Trick Pony 10 |
 |
|
This one is hard enough just to solve, even harder to find a single step. | Code: | *-----------*
|..4|.38|6..|
|56.|..7|...|
|...|1..|.7.|
|---+---+---|
|..2|36.|74.|
|.8.|7..|...|
|...|...|563|
|---+---+---|
|...|914|...|
|.1.|...|...|
|...|...|..2|
*-----------* |
Play this puzzle online |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think this puzzle was intended to be solved with one step.
instead the "one trick" you must find is applied at each step.
in other words, it might be two x-wings or
three xy-wings
two iterations of medusa, etc...
it won't be a mixture of techniques.
the idea behind the puzzles is to find that one and only technique to be applied (any number of times) to solve the puzzle.
right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| storm_norm wrote: | | I don't think this puzzle was intended to be solved with one step. |
How about this? | Code: |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 1 7 4 | 2 3 8 | 6 9 5 |
| 5 6 38 | 4 9 7 | 2 38 1 |
| 238 23 9 | 1 5 6 | 38 7 4 |
|----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
| 9 5 2 | 3 6 1 | 7 4 8 |
| 36 8 36 | 7 4 5 | 1 2 9 |
| 7 4 1 | 8 2 9 | 5 6 3 |
|----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
| 2368 23 *3678-5 | 9 1 4 | 38 358 *67 |
| 4 1 35678 |*56 78 2 | 9 358 *67 |
| 68 9 *568-7 |*56 78 3 | 4 1 2 |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
(7)r7c3=(7-6)r7c9=(6)r8c9-(6=5)r8c4-(5)r9c4=(5)r9c3=>r7c3<>5, r9c3<>7
This is an actual "One Trick Pony" published several years ago at sudoque.net.
Hope my coding is right--I am just learning :) |
Last edited by arkietech on Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| arkietech wrote: | | storm_norm wrote: | | I don't think this puzzle was intended to be solved with one step. |
How about this? | Code: |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 1 7 4 | 2 3 8 | 6 9 5 |
| 5 6 38 | 4 9 7 | 2 38 1 |
| 238 23 9 | 1 5 6 | 38 7 4 |
|----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
| 9 5 2 | 3 6 1 | 7 4 8 |
| 36 8 36 | 7 4 5 | 1 2 9 |
| 7 4 1 | 8 2 9 | 5 6 3 |
|----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
| 2368 23 *3678-5 | 9 1 4 | 38 358 *67 |
| 4 1 35678 |*56 78 2 | 9 358 *67 |
| 68 9 *568-7 |*56 78 3 | 4 1 2 |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
(7)r7c3=(7-6)r7c9=(6)r8c9-(6=5)r8c4-(5)r9c4=(5)=>r7c3<>5, r9c3<>7
This is an actual "One Trick Pony" published several years ago at sudoque.net.
Hope my coding is right--I am just learning :) |
|
nice chain, you forgot the cell designation for the ending 5.
but the question now becomes, what is the technique? what is the trick?
| Quote: | No more than 4 free singles to start with, some have no initial singles.
At least 4 non-basic steps are in the solving path, often more.
All but one solving steps are limited to singles, locked candidates, subsets, basic fish, UR 1 and BUG.
One advanced step is required. This is the One Trick. It can be anything except tabling. |
according to my interpretation of the rules...
remove all basics, x-wings, UR type 1 and BUG...
when the puzzle comes to another stand still
you stand back and look for that trick to solve the puzzle.
and I think medusa coloring is considered a trick.
your chain is a nicely constructed medusa coloring chain after the x-wing on 3 is removed.
gave the colors of candidates 5,6,7,8 in the bottom band.
the arrows point to the candidates that see both red and green and can be eliminated.
the 8 in r7c3 sees a red 7 in the same cell and a green 8 in r9c1 ( same box )
the 5 in r7c3 sees a red 7 in the same cell and a green 5 in r9c3 ( same box )
the 7 in r9c3 sees a green 5 in the same cell and a red 7 in r7c3 ( same box ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| storm_norm wrote: | according to my interpretation of the rules...
remove all basics, x-wings, UR type 1 and BUG...
when the puzzle comes to another stand still
you stand back and look for that trick to solve the puzzle. |
I guess I don't know the rules. I would call this trick a chain. It does break the puzzle and I thought that was the objective. I have always considered x-wings, UR type 1 and BUG advanced moves or tricks.
I will come up with a new title--any ideas?
Sorry about the omission of the last cell id. I will edit it.
Thanks for the help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wapati
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 472
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada.
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
These are Ruud's rules:
| Code: | * No more than 4 free singles to start with, some have no initial singles.
* At least 4 non-basic steps are in the solving path, often more.
* All but one solving steps are limited to singles, locked candidates,
subsets, basic fish, UR 1 and BUG.
* One advanced step is required. This is the One Trick.
It can be anything except tabling.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wapati wrote: | These are Ruud's rules:
| Code: | * No more than 4 free singles to start with, some have no initial singles.
* At least 4 non-basic steps are in the solving path, often more.
* All but one solving steps are limited to singles, locked candidates,
subsets, basic fish, UR 1 and BUG.
* One advanced step is required. This is the One Trick.
It can be anything except tabling.
|
|
Is an AIC or chain considered a trick? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you don't count the x-wing and BUG+1. There is an xy-chain that also solves the puzzle
| Code: | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 1 7 4 | 2 3 8 | 6 9 5 |
| 5 6 38 | 4 9 7 | 2 38 1 |
| 238 23 9 | 1 5 6 | 38 7 4 |
|----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
| 9 5 2 | 3 6 1 | 7 4 8 |
| 36 8 36 | 7 4 5 | 1 2 9 |
| 7 4 1 | 8 2 9 | 5 6 3 |
|----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
| 2368 23 35678 | 9 1 4 | 38 358 67 |
| 4 1 3567-8 |*56 *78 2 | 9 358 *67 |
|*68 9 5678 |*56 7-8 3 | 4 1 2 |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
(8=7)r8c5-(7=6)r8c9-(6=5)r8c4-(5=6)r9c4-(6=8)r9c1=>r8c3,r9c5<>8 |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
storm_norm, wapati: The One Trick Pony title used by arkietech is not the same One Trick Pony as defined by Ruud. This came to light early on in arkietech's posts. I think the upshot was that he would continue to post puzzles with this title, but the solutions only involved basics and one advanced step.
Neither in Ruud's definition nor arkietech's use is there any mention (to my knowledge) of what constitutes an advanced step. In Ruud's puzzles, it always seemed to be something obscure -- as opposed to a chain. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wapati
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 472
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada.
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is where I get puzzled.
You want to use names of pre-defined terms, go for it.
How will anyone know about which you speak? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| daj95376 wrote: | storm_norm, wapati: The One Trick Pony title used by arkietech is not the same One Trick Pony as defined by Ruud. This came to light early on in arkietech's posts. I think the upshot was that he would continue to post puzzles with this title, but the solutions only involved basics and one advanced step.
Neither in Ruud's definition nor arkietech's use is there any mention (to my knowledge) of what constitutes an advanced step. In Ruud's puzzles, it always seemed to be something obscure -- as opposed to a chain. |
This puzzle was obtained from Ruud's site //www.sudocue.net/pony.php in December of 2006 The site is called One-Trick Pony. I hate to use the puzzle without acknowledging the source. This is the first I have heard of rules other than "It can be anything except tabling." I have enjoyed these puzzles for years searching for the "one trick". I see the rules now -- mentioned by Wapati--right on the web site. I don't know how I missed them before. I would go to the site get the puzzle and store it in my database without ever reading the rules above the puzzle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
