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almost UR? (AUR)

 
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storm_norm



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:45 am    Post subject: almost UR? (AUR) Reply with quote

this isn't a thread about a new technique, or some breakthrough in logic. instead its an interesting way to exploit an easily found UR or almost UR. as seen before in the daily puzzles, these strong inferences derived from URs can provide bombs needed to shrink a puzzle to a more manageable form.
Code:
. . .|. 1 .|. 2 .
. . 8|. . 6|. . 9
. 7 .|. . 4|. . 6
-----+-----+-----
. . .|. . 8|. 5 .
8 . .|. 9 .|7 . .
. 4 3|7 . .|9 . .
-----+-----+-----
. . .|. 5 2|. 4 .
4 . .|1 . .|8 . .
. 6 5|. . .|. . 3

this is a generated sudoku grid from Sudocue. AFAIK it can't be solved with VH techniques alone, and no I didn't go through all xy-wing extensions, w-wing extensions, m-wing extensions, etc. so if there are some that help the solution along then that is good.

I know we have had discussions on these before but I think the AUR directly helps this puzzle along. in other words, the alternative technique would be difficult to find.
this following grid is the state of the puzzle after a x-wing on 6 and an ER on 1. (if this isn't clear I would be happy to point them out as well).
Code:
.---------------------.---------------------.---------------------.
| 6      359    4     | 3589   1     B3579  | 35     2     A78    |
| 1235   1235   8     | 235   D237    6     | 4     C137    9     |
| 2359   7      129   | 23589  238    4     | 135    138    6     |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 1279   129    12679 | 2346   234    8     | 136    5      124   |
| 8      125    126   | 23456  9      135   | 7      13     124   |
| 125    4      3     | 7      26     15    | 9      168    128   |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 1379   8      179   |F369    5      2     | 16     4     *17    |
| 4      239    279   | 1     E367   #379   | 8     #679    5     |
| 179    6      5     | 48     48    #79    | 2     #179    3     |
'---------------------'---------------------'---------------------'

notice the cells marked "#"... if the 3 isn't in r8c6, this forms a UR {7,9} in r89c68 and because 9's have the strong link in col 8, this forces sevens to not exist in r89c8. obviously, this creates a strong inference with the 7 in r7c9.
do a little coloring up to A and over to B, and 3 can be eliminated from r1c6
do more coloring from A to C to D to E, and 3 can be eliminated from r8c5.
finally, that last elimination provides a link to F, eliminates 3 from r7c4.

what I may have wrong is how the chains should look, viewed below.

(3)r8c6 = AUR(79)r89c68 = (7)r7c9 - (7)A = (7)B; B <> 3
(3)r8c6 = AUR(79)r89c68 = (7)r7c9 - (7)A = (7)C - (7)D = (7)E; E <> 3
then...
(3)r8c6 = AUR(79)r89c68 = (7)r7c9 - (7)A = (7)C - (7)D = (7-6)E = (6)F; F <> 3

this leads to a skyscraper on 7, eliminates 7 from r9c8.
xy-wing, {1,6,9} eliminates 9 from r9c6.

IMO... if URs are easy to spot, then this is the next step in that direction.

I have edited for errors.


Last edited by storm_norm on Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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storm_norm



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed another way to view the AUR. if three isn't in r8c6, then the {7,9}UR creates a naked pair on {1,6} inside box 9. the UR creates a psuedocell {1,6} between r89c8. this with the {1,6} in r7c7 would eliminate the 1 in r7c9.
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daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: almost UR? (AUR) Reply with quote

storm_norm wrote:
... and no I didn't go through all xy-wing extensions, w-wing extensions, m-wing extensions, etc. so if there are some that help the solution along then that is good.

Good: An M-Wing quickly reduces your AUR to a UR Type 1 -- [r8c6]=3 -- to crack the puzzle.

===== ===== ===== =====

Staying with your (79) UR [r89c68]. I like your initial premise.

Code:
1  ) [r8c6]<>3
2a ) resulting 79 pair   => [r1c6]<>79
2b1) resulting UR Type 4 => [r89c8]<>7
2b2) => [r7c9]=7
2b3) => [r1c9]<>7
3  ) => [r1]~7 ... which is invalid!

Conclusion, [r8c6]=3. Not your everyday set of deductions, but I was once told that anything counts when reducing a UR. The existence of AURs only reinforces that statement.

===== ===== ===== =====

Different perspective. Either [r1c6]=7 or else [r1c9]=7.

Code:
[r1c6]=7 => [r9c6]=9 => [r8c6]=3
[r1c9]=7 => [r7c9]<>7 => hp(79)[r89c8] => UR Type 1 => [r8c6]=3
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storm_norm



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Different perspective. Either [r1c6]=7 or else [r1c9]=7.

Code:
[r1c6]=7 => [r9c6]=9 => [r8c6]=3
[r1c9]=7 => [r7c9]<7> hp(79)[r89c8] => UR Type 1 => [r8c6]=3


shall we dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

you got it. discontinuous loop like you were trying to explain in the other thread. this notation is going to make you dizzy, but here goes...

(3)r8c6 = np(79)r89c6 - (7)r1c6 = (7)r1c9 - (7)r7c9 = hp(79)r89c8 - UR(79)r89c68 = (3)r8c6; r8c6 => 3

so we can see that either r8c6 is 3 or if not, follow the chain around...r8c6 is 3.
np = naked pair, hp = hidden pair
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daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storm_norm wrote:
you got it. discontinuous loop like you were trying to explain in the other thread. this notation is going to make you dizzy, but here goes...

(3)r8c6 = np(79)r89c6 - (7)r1c6 = (7)r1c9 - (7)r7c9 = hp(79)r89c8 - UR(79)r89c68 = (3)r8c6; r8c6 => 3

so we can see that either r8c6 is 3 or if not, follow the chain around...r8c6 is 3.
np = naked pair, hp = hidden pair

I wrote my post when I was tired and heading to bed. I woke later with this loop running through my head and arose to update my post. I'm glad you'd already found it and saved me the trouble of finding the proper notation. (BTW: your notation came thiiiiiis close to making me dizzy.) Very Happy
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ravel



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 536

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet another way to view the AUR
Code:
.---------------------.---------------------.---------------------.
| 6      359    4     | 3589   1     *3579  | 35     2     ^78    |
| 1235   1235   8     | 235    237    6     | 4     *137    9     |
| 2359   7      129   | 23589  238    4     | 135    138    6     |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 1279   129    12679 | 2346   234    8     | 136    5      124   |
| 8      125    126   | 23456  9      135   | 7      13     124   |
| 125    4      3     | 7      26     15    | 9      168    128   |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 1379   8      179   | 369    5      2     | 16     4      17    |
| 4      239    279   | 1      367   #379   | 8     #679    5     |
| 179    6      5     | 48     48    #79    | 2     #179    3     |
'---------------------'---------------------'---------------------'

To avoid the DP, in columns 68 either r1c6 must be 9 or r1c6=7 or (r2c8=7 => r1c6=7).
So in all cases r1c6 cannot be 35.
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Asellus



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 865
Location: Sonoma County, CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norm,

While your reasoning is fine, I'm not comfortable with this part of your AIC: "-UR(79)r89c68=". Read left-to-right, it only makes sense to me if this is interpreted to mean that the DP(79) must be false. But a DP must always be false. However, the "nodes" of a bidirectional AIC must be capable of being true or false. That suggests that the right-to-left meaning must be different. And, so it is: read right-to-left, it makes sense as a Type 4 UR that must be true (when (3)r8c6 is false) which in turn means that the hp(79)r89 must be false.

In short, I suspect that a UR does not make sense as a "node" of a bidirectional AIC. Instead, I see URs or other potential DPs as serving as the basis for establishing inferences which are then used in the AIC. This is analogous to the way that, say, an ALS can establish an inference that one exploits. The structure that establishes the inference is notated outside brackets surrounding the induced inference, rather than being shown as a "node".

For instance, one way (and perhaps the clearest) to approach the AIC above is to exploit the strong inference induced by the UR(79) between (3)r8c6 and (7)r7c9, i.e. they cannot both be false since this results in the DP:

UR(79)r89c68[(3)r8c6=(7)r7c9] - (7)r1c9=(7)r1c6 - ALS[(7)r89c6=(3)r8c6]; r8c6=3

Another approach is:

UR(79)[(3)r8c6=(16)r89c8] - ALS[({16})r7c79=(7)r7c9] - (7)r1c9=(7)r1c6 - ALS[(7)r89c6=(3)r8c6]; r8c6=3

This one is trickier to understand due to this part:
(16)r89c8 - ({16})r7c79

"(16)r89c8" means the grouped <1> and <6> in r89c8. A group is true if any member is true and is false if all members are false. "({16})r7c79" means the set of <1> and <6> in r7c79. A set is true if all members are true and is false if any member is false. It should be evident that the weak inference is valid. (In fact, the link is conjugate since a strong inference is also valid.)

In any case, there is more than one way to approach the situation.
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ravel



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 536

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose, that the easy it was to spot it, the hard it is to formulate my elimination as an AIC.
In my sloppy notation i would say
r1c6<>79 [i.e. none of them] => r89c6=79 [i.e. a pair] => (UR type 4)r2c8=7 => r1c6=7
==> r1c6=79 [i.e. one of them]
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storm_norm



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
While your reasoning is fine, I'm not comfortable with this part of your AIC: "-UR(79)r89c68=".

and...
Quote:
I suppose, that the easy it was to spot it, the hard it is to formulate my elimination as an AIC


right! I am also not comfortable with writing the equivelent AIC. hopefully, what becomes apparent and important is the extensions that can be made, like extending a m-wing or w-wing.
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storm_norm



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a one stepper.
notice the marked cells below, what happens if the 6 is removed from r4c6?

Code:
.------------------.------------------.------------------.
|C58    1     247  | 246   678   2678 | 9    B2457  3    |
| 9     247   6    | 3     1     5    | 247   8     24   |
| 3    D58    247  | 24    9     278  | 1     6     245  |
:------------------+------------------+------------------:
| 1    E48   #49   | 7     2    #469  | 3    A45   F4568 |
| 267   247   5    | 8     46    3    | 2467  1     9    |
| 2678  3    #2479 | 1     5    #469  |*2467 *247  *2468 |
:------------------+------------------+------------------:
| 27    9     8    | 5     47    1    | 246   3     246  |
| 25    6     1    | 9     3     248  | 58    24    7    |
| 4     257   3    | 26    678   2678 | 58    9     1    |
'------------------'------------------'------------------'

the AUR {49} in r46c36 extra candidate 6. if 6 is removed from r4c6...
to break up the deadly pattern you can eliminate the 4's in r6c36

the only 4's left in row 6 are in box 6. all other 4's in box 6 can be eliminated.
means A<>4, A=5, B<>5, C=5, C<>8, D=8, E<>8, F=8... F<>6.
reduces the puzzle to singles.

original.
Code:

+-------+-------+-------+
| . 1 . | . . . | . . 3 |
| 9 . . | . . 5 | . 8 . |
| . . . | . 9 . | 1 6 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | 7 2 . | 3 . . |
| . . 5 | 8 . . | . 1 . |
| . 3 . | . . . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 8 | 5 . . | . . . |
| . 6 1 | . 3 . | . . 7 |
| 4 . . | . . . | . 9 1 |
+-------+-------+-------+

Play online
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Asellus



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 865
Location: Sonoma County, CA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norm,

Go ahead and write the AIC...

You've noticed that the 49 UR induces a strong inference between (6)r4c6 and the group (4)r6c789. (These things cannot both be false or the DP occurs.) I don't believe that the "Almost" part is necessary. It is just a UR implication that does not match one of the numbered types. So:

(6)r4c9 - 49URr46c36[(6)r4c6=(4)r6c789] - (4=5)r4c8 - (5)r1c8=(5-8)r1c1=(8)r3c2 - (8)r4c2=(8-6)r4c9; r4c9<>6

It's a nice use of a UR pattern!
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ravel



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 536

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a nice way to find it, but after all only a part of the path (without the UR) is needed:

(4=5)r4c8-(5)r1c8=(5-8)r1c1=(8)r3c2-(8=4)r4c2;
r4c369<>4, then r4c3=9, r4c6=6
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