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Set T_03 Puzzle 38
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gindaani



Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would also like to see somewhere that actually describes transported pincers.

My understanding of xy-wings is that you look at the pivot. It can have one of two values, in this case, 1 or 2. Each value for the pivot forces one of the pincers to be the third value, in this case 9.

It seems like any chain starting with the forced value of a pincer and ending in the same value is a transported pincer. In this case, if [r8c8]=9 then [r5c1]=9. Regardless of how those two are connected, the 9 pincer was transported.
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gindaani



Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
daj95376 wrote:
It would have been nice if you had at least listed the row values in the same order as you intended the linkage to be interpreted; i.e., (1=1)r85c8.


I like that idea. Sudopedia doesn't specifically say what order to list the cells, but that makes sense.

Does anyone have another reference to Eureka notation besides sudopedia?
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Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
gindaani wrote:
I would also like to see somewhere that actually describes transported pincers.

My understanding of xy-wings is that you look at the pivot. It can have one of two values, in this case, 1 or 2. Each value for the pivot forces one of the pincers to be the third value, in this case 9.

It seems like any chain starting with the forced value of a pincer and ending in the same value is a transported pincer. In this case, if [r8c8]=9 then [r5c1]=9. Regardless of how those two are connected, the 9 pincer was transported.

I'm not even sure I should be in this discussion, but...as the term has been used here for the most part, a pincer transport occurs when some simple coloring is done starting with one of the pincers to determine another cell that has to be the same value. It still looks to me like you created another set of pincers based on the strong links on 1 in column 8, as opposed to actually transporting one of the original pincers.
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daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My working definition of transport: One end (or both) of a pattern is transported to another cell by a weak link affecting a strong link in another house/unit.

Code:
 one end transported to produce eliminations (*)
 +-----------------------------------+
 |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 |-----------+-----------+-----------|
 |  .  *  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 | x9  /  /  |  /  /  /  |  / y9  /  | <-- strong link: (9)r5c8 = (9)r5c1
 |  .  *  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 |-----------+-----------+-----------|
 |  *  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 |  *  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  . 19  .  |
 |  * 29  .  |  .  .  .  | 12  .  .  |
 +-----------------------------------+
                               ^---------- weak   link: (9)r8c8 - (9)r5c8

Code:
 both ends transported to produce eliminations (*)
 +-----------------------------------+
 |  .  .  .  |  .  .  *  |  .  .  .  |
 |  / r9  /  | s9  /  /  |  /  /  /  | <-- strong link: (9)r2c2 = (9)r2c4
 |  .  .  .  |  .  .  *  |  .  .  .  |
 |-----------+-----------+-----------|
 |  .  .  .  |  *  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 |  /  /  /  |  /  / x9  |  / y9  /  | <-- strong link: (9)r5c8 = (9)r5c6
 |  .  .  .  |  *  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 |-----------+-----------+-----------|
 |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |
 |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  . 19  .  |
 |  . 29  .  |  .  .  .  | 12  .  .  |
 +-----------------------------------+
                               ^---------- weak   link: (9)r8c8 - (9)r5c8
       ^---------------------------------- weak   link: (9)r9c2 - (9)r2c2

Oldest reference in this forum that made sense for transport

In gindaani's PM, a strong link for <9> doesn't exist in [r5]; but his chain does produce the desired effect -- regardless of notational disagreements!
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Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Oldest reference in this forum that made sense for transport

I remember reading that post when it was made and have even used a few XYZ Transports, although they're rare for me. The "transport" term really caught on, but it was "pincer coloring" before that.
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gindaani



Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Marty R. wrote:
The "transport" term really caught on, but it was "pincer coloring" before that.


So if pincer coloring is what is now referred to as transport, my move would have to be called.....

xy-wing with advanced pincer coloring. Very Happy
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