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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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 Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: MM 1412 and 1414 |
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#1412
| Code: |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 2 . | . . . | . 5 . |
| . 3 9 | . . . | 8 . . |
| 6 . . | 7 . . | . . 9 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 1 . | 3 . 8 | . . . |
| . . 2 | . 4 . | 3 . . |
| . . . | 5 . 7 | . 4 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 1 . . | . . 2 | . . 4 |
| . . 8 | 4 . . | 5 9 . |
| . 7 . | . . . | . 1 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
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open this puzzle in the DRAW/PLAY page
#1414
| Code: |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 7 | 2 . 9 | 3 . . |
| . 3 . | . . . | . 4 1 |
| . 9 . | . . . | . . 8 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | 9 . . | . . . |
| . 4 . | 6 . 3 | . 2 . |
| 8 . . | . . 2 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 7 . . | . . . | . 6 . |
| 9 6 . | . . . | 1 3 . |
| . . 3 | . . 5 | 4 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
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open this puzzle in the DRAW/PLAY page
these puzzles don't mess around. haven't seen both diabolicals stand up to their description in a while.
the puzzles give up a total of 20 singles after basics, combined! |
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nataraj
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 1048
Location: near Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know about combined. I only did the first one.
After basics,
| Code: |
+--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+
| 8 2 17 | 169 1369 1369 | 4 5 1367 |
| 57# 3 9 | 2 156# 4 | 8 67 167* |
| 6 4 15* | 7 8 135 |-12 23 9 |
+--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+
| 4579 1 4567 | 3 269 8 | 2679 267 2567 |
| 579 589 2 | 169 4 169 | 3 678 15678 |
| 39 89 36 | 5 1269 7 | 1269 4 1268 |
+--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+
| 1 59 35 | 689 35679 2 | 67 3678 4 |
| 23 6 8 | 4 137 13 | 5 9 237 |
| 23459 7 345 | 689 3569 3569 | 26 1 2368 |
+--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+
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a m-wing (1)r3c3=r2c9, using the strong link (5) in row 2 sets r3c7=2
singles after that ... |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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nataraj,
of interest...
Ravel would also point out that these puzzles were very often solved with a m-wing.
curious if it wasn't these puzzles which helped in naming the m-wing technique.
hmmmm |
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nataraj
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 1048
Location: near Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Could well be that the m-wing provides a kind of shortcut.
BTW, the second puzzle seems to be much tougher. I gave it a try last night but after a couple of vh moves was still mired in too many candidates for too many cells. Will tackle this one again later in the week. |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: |
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nataraj,
I would give you a hint on the second one but you will probably end up going "fishing" instead. |
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nataraj
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 1048
Location: near Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Phew, just in time (no hint yet) ....
This time it seemed much easier (maybe I should not try to solve sudokus after 8 p.m.)
UR 15 /w sl (1) means r3c1 <> 1 (don't know if this is necessary)
Coloring ( 8 ) removes 8 from r9c2, which opens an xy-wing ( 15-18-58 ) that solves the puzzle.
Nice one! |
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tlanglet
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2468
Location: Northern California Foothills
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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My solution for the first puzzle was a xy-wing 135 with pivot 15 in r3c3 and pseudo-cell 13 in row3; r7c8<>3. This step employs some of the same cells as the m-wing by nataraj.
Ted
ps: Nice to see you posting again nataraj. |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:57 am Post subject: |
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#1414
in one step.
| Code: | .---------------------.---------------------.---------------------.
| 14 18 7 | 2 148 9 | 3 5 6 |
| 256 3 258 | 578 578 678 | 9 4 1 |
| 1456 9 15 | 145 3 146 | 2 7 8 |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 3 *257 *256 | 9 1578 178 |*5678 18 4 |
|*15 4 159 | 6 78 3 | 78 2 *59 |
| 8 57 *569 | 1457 1457 2 |*567 *19 3 |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 7 1-258 12458 | 3 9 148 |*58 6 25 |
| 9 6 458 | 478 2 478 | 1 3 57 |
|*12 1-28 3 | 178 6 5 | 4 *89 279 |
'---------------------'---------------------'---------------------' |
(2=1)r9c1 - (1=5)r5c1 - (5)r5c9 = (5)r46c7 - (5=8)r7c7 - (8=9)r9c8 - (9)r6c8 = (9-6)r6c3 = (6-2)r4c3 = (2)r4c2; r79c2 <> 2
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tlanglet
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2468
Location: Northern California Foothills
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| storm_norm wrote: | #1414
in one step.
| Code: | .---------------------.---------------------.---------------------.
| 14 18 7 | 2 148 9 | 3 5 6 |
| 256 3 258 | 578 578 678 | 9 4 1 |
| 1456 9 15 | 145 3 146 | 2 7 8 |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 3 *257 *256 | 9 1578 178 |*5678 18 4 |
|*15 4 159 | 6 78 3 | 78 2 *59 |
| 8 57 *569 | 1457 1457 2 |*567 *19 3 |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 7 1-258 12458 | 3 9 148 |*58 6 25 |
| 9 6 458 | 478 2 478 | 1 3 57 |
|*12 1-28 3 | 178 6 5 | 4 *89 279 |
'---------------------'---------------------'---------------------' |
(2=1)r9c1 - (1=5)r5c1 - (5)r5c9 = (5)r46c7 - (5=8)r7c7 - (8=9)r9c8 - (9)r6c8 = (9-6)r6c3 = (6-2)r4c3 = (2)r4c2; r79c2 <> 2
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Norm, your chains are amazing 
Ted |
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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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#1414:
| Code: | [r8c3]=8 => [r8c3]<>5; otherwise, the following applies
(5-4)r8c3 = (4-8)r7c3 = (8)r2c3 - (8=1)r1c2 - (1=5)r3c3 => [r8c3]<>5
Either way, [r8c3]<>5
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 14 18 7 | 2 148 9 | 3 5 6 |
| 256 3 258 | 578 578 678 | 9 4 1 |
| 1456 9 15 | 145 3 146 | 2 7 8 |
|-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
| 3 257 256 | 9 1578 178 | 5678 18 4 |
| 15 4 159 | 6 78 3 | 78 2 59 |
| 8 57 569 | 1457 1457 2 | 567 19 3 |
|-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
| 7 1258 12458 | 3 9 148 | 58 6 25 |
| 9 6 458 | 478 2 478 | 1 3 57 |
| 12 128 3 | 178 6 5 | 4 89 279 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
# 79 eliminations remain
Singles complete the solution.
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| daj95376 wrote: | #1414:
| Code: | [r8c3]=8 => [r8c3]<5> [r8c3]<>5
Either way, [r8c3]<>5
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 14 18 7 | 2 148 9 | 3 5 6 |
| 256 3 258 | 578 578 678 | 9 4 1 |
| 1456 9 15 | 145 3 146 | 2 7 8 |
|-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
| 3 257 256 | 9 1578 178 | 5678 18 4 |
| 15 4 159 | 6 78 3 | 78 2 59 |
| 8 57 569 | 1457 1457 2 | 567 19 3 |
|-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
| 7 1258 12458 | 3 9 148 | 58 6 25 |
| 9 6 458 | 478 2 478 | 1 3 57 |
| 12 128 3 | 178 6 5 | 4 89 279 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
# 79 eliminations remain
Singles complete the solution.
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Danny,
interesting and nice one !
but since the cell contains three condidates, shouldn't you also show that a 4 would disprove 5?
r8c3 = 4; r8c3 <> 5
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r8c3 = 5 leads to your chain; r8c3 <> 5
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r8c3 = 8; r8c3 <> 5.
all three candidates show that a 5 can't exist in r8c3.
definitely a valid logical conclusion.
-----
note that when I clicked on "quote" it didn't include the chain in Danny's original post.  |
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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| storm_norm wrote: | Danny, interesting and nice one !
but since the cell contains three condidates, shouldn't you also show that a 4 would disprove 5?
r8c3 = 4; r8c3 <> 5
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r8c3 = 5 leads to your chain; r8c3 <> 5
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r8c3 = 8; r8c3 <> 5.
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I was skating on thin ice with my solution because I was concealing a network.
The chain for [r8c3]=5 fails to force [r2c3]=8 if <8> is still a candidate in [r8c3]. That's why cell [r8c3] was split off into (8=45) as two statements.
If I knew how to create an ALS, I could conceal my network solution as an ALS. Barring that, I just decided to be sneaky. |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| I enjoyed 1414 and used a Hidden UR (15), XYZ (128), Finned X-Wing (5), XY-Chain and XY (185). |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| storm_norm wrote: | nataraj,
of interest...
Ravel would also point out that these puzzles were very often solved with a m-wing.
curious if it wasn't these puzzles which helped in naming the m-wing technique.
hmmmm |
No,
The M-wing was identified and named by yours truly. I chose the name because it is the simplest case of Medusa coloring, because it is similar to a W-wing (M, W, get it?), and because M is the initial of my last name.
Keith |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| keith wrote: | | storm_norm wrote: | nataraj,
of interest...
Ravel would also point out that these puzzles were very often solved with a m-wing.
curious if it wasn't these puzzles which helped in naming the m-wing technique.
hmmmm |
No,
The M-wing was identified and named by yours truly. I chose the name because it is the simplest case of Medusa coloring, because it is similar to a W-wing (M, W, get it?), and because M is the initial of my last name.
Keith |
ohh,
did not know that. thanx for the info. |
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