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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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 Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:07 am Post subject: Transporter room, anyone? |
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Beam me up, Scotty!
| Code: | Puzzle: Menneske 2516040
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | 6 8 5 | . . . |
| 7 . . | . . . | . . 4 |
| . . 6 | 1 . 4 | 2 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 3 . 7 | 5 . . | 4 . 2 |
| 4 . . | . . . | . . 1 |
| 6 . 1 | . . 3 | 8 . 9 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 4 | 2 . 9 | 3 . . |
| 2 . . | . . . | . . 6 |
| . . . | 7 4 6 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+ |
Keith |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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After basics
| Code: |
+------------+-----------+-----------+
| 19 4 2 | 6 8 5 | 7 19 3 |
| 7 18 58 | 39 39 2 | 6 158 4 |
| 589 3 6 | 1 7 4 | 2 589 58 |
+------------+-----------+-----------+
| 3 89 7 | 5 19 18 | 4 6 2 |
| 4 2 89 | 89 6 7 | 5 3 1 |
| 6 5 1 | 4 2 3 | 8 7 9 |
+------------+-----------+-----------+
| 158 6 4 | 2 15 9 | 3 58 7 |
| 2 7 59 | 38 135 18 | 19 4 6 |
| 158 189 3 | 7 4 6 | 19 2 58 |
+------------+-----------+-----------+
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Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
After move 1
| Code: |
+-----------+-----------+----------+
| 9 4 2 | 6 8 5 | 7 1 3 |
| 7 1 58 | 39 39 2 | 6 58 4 |
| 58 3 6 | 1 7 4 | 2 9 58 |
+-----------+-----------+----------+
| 3 89 7 | 5 19 18 | 4 6 2 |
| 4 2 89 | 89 6 7 | 5 3 1 |
| 6 5 1 | 4 2 3 | 8 7 9 |
+-----------+-----------+----------+
| 158 6 4 | 2 15 9 | 3 58 7 |
| 2 7 59 | 38 135 18 | 19 4 6 |
| 158 89 3 | 7 4 6 | 19 2 58 |
+-----------+-----------+----------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
| Quote: | I didn't find a one-stepper using a transport. although I think remote Pairs on 58 solves it.
1. W-Wing (18) in boxes 18 with SL 8 in r4 is flightless. Transport 1 from r8c6 to r7c1 via r7c5=> -1r1c1, r9c2
2. The above exposes an 89-5XY-Wing pivoted in r9c2=> -5r9c1 |
(Marty, I think I fixed your white quote problem. I hope I didn't screw up your message. - Keith) |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Marty,
Menneske was kaput for a while, I am glad it is back. I find their Very Hard (0) puzzles right up my alley.
Anyway, I found this one. My after basics:
| Code: | +-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 19 4 2 | 6 8 5 | 7 19 3 |
| 7 18 58 | 39 39 2 | 6 158 4 |
| 589 3 6 | 1 7 4 | 2 589 58 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 3 89& 7 | 5 19# 18@ | 4 6 2 |
| 4 2 89 | 89 6 7 | 5 3 1 |
| 6 5 1 | 4 2 3 | 8 7 9 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 158 6 4 | 2 15 9 | 3 58 7 |
| 2 7 5-9 | 38 135 18@ | 19# 4 6 |
| 158 189& 3 | 7 4 6 | 1-9 2 58 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+ |
The thing I noticed was the useless 1-9 W-wing. @@ is a strong link on 1, ## are pincers on 9.
Supplement it with the strong link on 9 in C2, &&, and you have -9 in R8C3 and R9C8 that solve the puzzle in an instant. Pretty cool!
So, I thought, what will Helmut's Sudoku Helper make of this? To my surprise, it does not find my W-wing above, but it finds SIX flightless XY-wings that can make eliminations.
http://sudoku.saueregger.at/HSH/HSH.htm?p=*EN*HSF*6*1/15/2017*0:0:0:6:8:5:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:4:0:0:6:1:0:4:2:0:0:3:0:7:5:0:0:4:0:2:4:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1:6:0:1:0:0:3:8:0:9:0:0:4:2:0:9:3:0:0:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:6:0:0:0:7:4:6:0:0:0:*undefined
In subsequent messages I'll document these.
Best wishes,
Keith |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The thing I noticed was the useless 1-9 W-wing. @@ is a strong link on 1, ## are pincers on 9.
Supplement it with the strong link on 9 in C2, &&, and you have -9 in R8C3 and R9C8 that solve the puzzle in an instant. Pretty cool! |
Keith, you're well aware of how dense I can be. I don't understand how you arrive at eliminations based on the strong link.
So you like Menneske Very Hard (0). They're all -0-, so that means they're unrated, huh, unlike the Super Hards which have a number assigned to them? |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Marty,
| Code: | +-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 19 4 2 | 6 8 5 | 7 19 3 |
| 7 18 58 | 39 39 2 | 6 158 4 |
| 589 3 6 | 1 7 4 | 2 589 58 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 3 89e 7 | 5 19d 18c | 4 6 2 |
| 4 2 89 | 89 6 7 | 5 3 1 |
| 6 5 1 | 4 2 3 | 8 7 9 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+
| 158 6 4 | 2 15 9 | 3 58 7 |
| 2 7 5-9 | 38 135 18b | 19a 4 6 |
| 158 189f 3 | 7 4 6 | 1-9 2 58 |
+-------------+-------------+-------------+ |
ad both have possibilities 19. bc is a strong link on 1, so a and d are W-wing pincers on 9. That W-wing makes no eliminations.
ef is a strong link on 9. If d is 9, e is not 9, and f is 9. So, a and f are pincers on 9, making the eliminations shown.
The pincer is transported from d to f.
| Quote: | | So you like Menneske Very Hard (0). They're all -0-, so that means they're unrated, huh, unlike the Super Hards which have a number assigned to them? |
If you go to Menneske, you can select the puzzle difficulty:
| Quote: |
Super easy
Very easy
Easy
Medium
Hard
Harder
Very hard
Super hard
Impossible
|
All of them through Very Hard have a numerical rating of zero. Only the Super Hard and Impossible have ratings that are not zero.
However, there is a grading in difficulty between those rated "0". As I said, "Very Hard" seems to be my speed.
We talked about this years ago, how are the numerical ratings for Menneske derived? Clearly, it is not based on the techniques needed to solve the puzzle.
Keith |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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I was fooled by the discussion of the strong link ef, thinking there was something there beyond a regular transport.
I haven't done any Menneskes in a long time. I used to look for Super Hards in the teens and 20s. I think Vanhegan used to rate by techniques. I liked that I could get 4 puzzles on a page, 8 on a sheet. Gaby Vanhegan died years ago, so there went that. |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I used to look for Super Hards in the teens and 20s. |
Marty, does that mean you have been doing Sudoku for a hundred years?
Keith  |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Marty, does that mean you have been doing Sudoku for a hundred years? |
Seems like it, but the actual start date was Dec. '05. One day I'm leafing through the local fish wrapper and noticed this strange-looking puzzle with the strange name. I was hooked almost immediately and joined here a month and a half later.
By the way, do you have an address for Sam that works? I used the old
samgriffiths-jones@manchester.ac.uk recently and it bounced. |
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bat999
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 55
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: | .---------------.----------------.-------------.
| 19 4 2 | 6 8 5 | 7 19 3 |
| 7 18 58 | 39 39 2 | 6 158 4 |
| 589 3 6 | 1 7 4 | 2 589 58 |
:---------------+----------------+-------------:
| 3 89 7 | 5 a19 18 | 4 6 2 |
| 4 2 b89 | a89 6 7 | 5 3 1 |
| 6 5 1 | 4 2 3 | 8 7 9 |
:---------------+----------------+-------------:
| 158 6 4 | 2 5-1 9 | 3 58 7 |
| 2 7 b59 | c38 c135 c18 | 19 4 6 |
| 158 189 3 | 7 4 6 | 19 2 58 |
'---------------'----------------'-------------' |
(1=8)r4c5,r5c4 - (8=5)r58c3 - (5=1)r8c456 => -1 r7c5; stte
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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bat999,
Interesting short chain. How did you find it?
Keith |
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bat999
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 55
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| keith wrote: | | ... How did you find it? |
A bit of trial and error I suppose.
In this puzzle figure out what happens when r4c5 is 1 and what happens when r4c5 isn't 1. It kills the 1 at r7c5 in both cases.
Then if it didn't finish the puzzle with stte I would try something else instead.  |
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