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Jan 6, 2007

 
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AThiker



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Taipei

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:02 am    Post subject: Jan 6, 2007 Reply with quote

I have been saving some unsolved puzzles to use the forum to learn how to solve. It looks like most of the 2007 posts were lost. So I am starting new ones for the puzzles I have not been able to solve. The oldest is Jan 6 and there are about a dozen. Will try to post them over the next week or so.

+-------------+------------+--------------+
| 3 2 1 | 56 7 68 | 468 9 458 |
| 789 5 78 | 4 389 2 | 678 1368 18 |
| 789 6 4 | 35 389 1 | 278 238 258 |
+-------------+------------+--------------+
| 6 14 58 | 9 2 7 | 3 158 148 |
| 2 13 35 | 8 6 4 | 9 15 7 |
| 78 47 9 | 1 5 3 | 24 28 6 |
+-------------+------------+--------------+
| 5 79 267 | 267 38 68 | 1 4 289 |
| 1 39 36 | 2 4 5 | 68 7 89 |
| 4 8 267 | 67 1 9 | 5 26 3 |
+-------------+------------+--------------+

This is where we get stuck. Any help will be appreciated.
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Steve R



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Birmingham, England

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the grid after a little housekeeping:
Code:

+------------+------------+--------------+
|   3  2   1 |  56   7 68 |  48    9 458 |
| 789  5  78 |   4 389  2 | 678 1368  18 |
| 789  6   4 |  35 389  1 | 278  238 258 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
|   6 14  58 |   9   2  7 |   3  158 148 |
|   2 13  35 |   8   6  4 |   9   15   7 |
|  78 47   9 |   1   5  3 |  24   28   6 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
|   5 79 267 | 367  38 68 |   1    4 289 |
|   1 39  36 |   2   4  5 |  68    7  89 |
|   4  8 267 |  67  1   9 |   5   26   3 |
+------------+------------+--------------+

The housekeeping involved eliminating 6 from r1c7 (on the grounds that the 6 in box 2 occupies the first row) and correcting the misprint in r7c4.

The xy-wing pivoted on r6c7 with pincers r1c7 and r6c8 now eliminates 8 from the middle column of box 3. This leads almost immediately to another xy-wing which solves the puzzle.

Steve
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AThiker



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Taipei

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, not sure how I missed that 6, and yes the other was a typo.

How do you get your grid to line up. I use the playon line option and the ASCII file, but my grids do not line up.

Thanks again.
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Steve R



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Birmingham, England

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory you simply select the grid when the message is in the message window and click the code button. It looks just the same in the window but lines up nicely when you click the preview or submit button.

In practice I often find something goes awry so I generally paste the grid to my word processing program first, convert it to a Courier font and check that the box is square etc before proceeding as above.

Steve
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Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I use the playon line option and the ASCII file, but my grids do not line up.


Are you following each step? The alignment works for me. You click the Ascii button, then click within the popup window to select (highlight) the grid within that new window. Then do a Copy (Ctrl+C), then Paste (Ctrl+V) into the message box.

The fact that I don't see the tag line below the grid about playing this puzzle online indicates that perhaps all steps weren't followed. Try it again and see what happens.
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csc



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:06 am    Post subject: 6 jan 07 revisited Reply with quote

Steve,
Your solution proceeded from:
Steve R wrote:

Code:

+------------+------------+--------------+
|   3  2   1 |  56   7 68 |  48    9 458 |
| 789  5  78 |   4 389  2 | 678 1368  18 |
| 789  6   4 |  35 389  1 | 278  238 258 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
|   6 14  58 |   9   2  7 |   3  158 148 |
|   2 13  35 |   8   6  4 |   9   15   7 |
|  78 47   9 |   1   5  3 |  24   28   6 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
|   5 79 267 | 367  38 68 |   1    4 289 |
|   1 39  36 |   2   4  5 |  68    7  89 |
|   4  8 267 |  67  1   9 |   5   26   3 |
+------------+------------+--------------+



I used a more indirect way using an xy chain to eliminate the 1 from r5c2, starting from the same position:
Code:

+------------+------------+---------------+
| 3   2  1   | 56  7   68 | 48  9    458  |
| 789 5  78  | 4   389 2  | 678 1368 18   |
| 789 6  4   | 357 389 1  | 278 2358 258  |
+------------+------------+---------------+
| 6   14 58  | 9   2   7  | 3   158  1458 |
| 2   13 35  | 8   6   4  | 9   15   7    |
| 78  47 9   | 1   5   3  | 24  28   6    |
+------------+------------+---------------+
| 5   79 267 | 367 38  68 | 1   4    29   |
| 1   39 36  | 2   4   5  | 68  7    89   |
| 4   8  267 | 67  1   9  | 5   26   3    |
+------------+------------+---------------+


Same position, but the candidates are slightly different. How are the 5's in r3c8 and r4c9 eliminated, which is required before proceeding with your solution. I've looked and looked, but I'm blind to it.

Thanks for the help
regards
scchua
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Steve R



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Birmingham, England

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

schua,

In my earlier post I started from the position I was given without thought as to how it might be reached.

Taking your grid instead:

Code:
+------------+------------+-----------------+
| 3   2   1   | 56  7   68 | 48   9    458  |
| 789 5   78  | 4   389 2  | 678  1368 18   |
| 789 6   4   | 357 389 1  | 278  2358 258  |
+------------+------------+-----------------+
| 6   14 W58  | 9   2   7  | 3   P158  1458 |
| 2   13  35  | 8   6   4  | 9   W15   7    |
| 78  47  9   | 1   5   3  | 24   28   6    |
+------------+------------+-----------------+
| 5   79  267 | 367 38  68 | 1    4    29   |
| 1   39  36  | 2   4   5  | 68   7    89   |
| 4   8   267 | 67  1   9  | 5    26   3    |
+------------+------------+-----------------+

It seems to me that 5 can be eliminated from r4c9 using the xyz-wing pivoted on r4c8 and the wings marked W. Eliminating 8 from b3c8 as well gives

Code:
+------------+------------+---------------+
| 3   2  1   | 56  7   68 | 48  9    458  |
| 789 5  78  | 4   389 2  | 678 136  18   |
| 789 6  4   | 357 389 1  | 278 235  258  |
+------------+------------+---------------+
| 6   14 58  | 9   2   7  | 3   158  148  |
| 2   13 35  | 8   6   4  | 9   15   7    |
| 78  47 9   | 1   5   3  | 24  28   6    |
+------------+------------+---------------+
| 5   79 267 | 367 38  68 | 1   4    29   |
| 1   39 36  | 2   4   5  | 68  7    89   |
| 4   8  267 | 67  1   9  | 5   26   3    |
+------------+------------+---------------+

Now 8 can be eliminated from r4c9 to reveal an xy-wing pivoted on r2c9 (wings r1c7 and r4c9). This removes 4 as a candidate for r6c7 and finishes the puzzle.

Steve
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csc



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Steve.
This must be the first time the Draw/Play solver uses an xyz wing to give a hint?
regards
scchua
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