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		kathyjc
 
 
  Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Trinidad, WI
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				 Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: 3 Sep - V hard | 
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				Hi,
 
 
Just need some help with the logic for this puzzle.  This is where I have reached.
 
 
 
5 9 8 | 2 6 4 | 7 1 3
 
7 6 4 | * * 1 | 9 * *
 
2 3 1 | * * 7 | 6 8 4
 
 
9 * * | 1 * * | 4 7 *
 
3 1 * | * * * | * 9 8
 
* 4 7 | * * 9 | 3 * 1
 
 
1 2 * | * * * | * 3 7
 
* * 9 | * * * | 1 4 *
 
4 7 3 | * 1 5 | * * 9
 
 
The hint feature places a 2 in the 4th row, 3rd col... but I am not sure why.  And even when I take that hint I do not get much further before being stuck again.  Any assistance with the logic would be appreciated. | 
			 
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		TKiel
 
 
  Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 292 Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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				 Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				Kathjc,
 
 
  Here is the grid with pencilmarks:
 
 
 	  | Code: | 	 		   
 
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 
 | 5     9     8     | 2     6     4     | 7     1     3     |
 
 | 7     6     4     | 358   358   1     | 9     25    25    |
 
 | 2     3     1     | 59    59    7     | 6     8     4     |
 
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 
 | 9     58    256   | 1     2358  2368  | 4     7     256   |
 
 | 3     1     256   | 4567  2457  26    | 25    9     8     |
 
 | 68    4     7     | 568   258   9     | 3     256   1     |
 
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 
 | 1     2     56    | 4689  489   68    | 58    3     7     |
 
 | 68    58    9     | 3678  2378  2368  | 1     4     256   |
 
 | 4     7     3     | 68    1     5     | 28    26    9     |
 
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 
 | 	  
 
 
  Row 5 has a naked triple that eliminates the 5's from the rest of that row (r5c45).  This makes an X-wing that excludes the 5 from r4c3.
 
 
  Box 8 (lower middle) has a naked pair that eliminates all 6's from other cells in that box, which creates an X-wing that eliminates 6 from r4c3.  That leaves 2 as the only candidate in that cell.
  Last edited by TKiel on Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:33 pm; edited 2 times in total | 
			 
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		David
 
 
  Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 58 Location: Bedford, UK
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				 Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				Hi Kathy
 
 
I think you will find the key to this puzzle is an 'X-wing' on 6's.
 
If you look at column4 there are only two cells which can hold a 6 (row6,9). Similarly on column8 there are only two cells for a 6 (rows 6,9) again. So you can eliminate the 6 from c1r6 (making it an 8) and the whole puzzle collapses from here | 
			 
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		gigi
 
 
  Joined: 04 Jun 2006 Posts: 5 Location: Central Texas
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				 Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				I know there are many ways to solve the puzzle, but I was able to solve it without any of the advanced techniques (x-wings, etc).  I didn't even have put in pencil marks until almost the end...  and I'm a pencil mark user all of the time.  I'm not sure why this was classified as a very hard???     Oh well... have a great long weekend, if you are lucky enough to be off!...
 
 
Laterz... gigi | 
			 
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		David Bryant
 
 
  Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 559 Location: Denver, Colorado
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				 Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject: How? | 
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				 	  | gigi wrote: | 	 		  |  ... I was able to solve it without any of the advanced techniques ... | 	  
 
I'd be very interested to learn how you did that, gigi. Can you explain it for us?
 
 
I got through the puzzle without making any pencil marks. I didn't use the X-Wings, either. But I did have to resort to a couple of double-implication chains, and I'd like to learn which simpler moves I overlooked.  dcb | 
			 
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		Bill Denholm
 
 
  Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 17 Location: Mountain View, California
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				 Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:25 am    Post subject:  | 
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				I usually use the traditional techniques, too, but I couldn't have solved this puzzle withoout the X-Wings.
 
 
Bill | 
			 
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		kathyjc
 
 
  Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Trinidad, WI
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				 Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject:  | 
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				| Thanks for the help.  The "X-wings" clue helped a lot.  I never looked for that before. | 
			 
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