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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:32 am Post subject: Puzzle 10/09/07: D |
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| Code: | +-----------------------+
| 6 . . | 8 . . | . 1 . |
| . . . | . . . | . 9 . |
| . . 1 | . . 9 | . 6 3 |
|-------+-------+-------|
| 4 . . | 1 . . | . . . |
| . . . | . . 4 | . 8 2 |
| . . 6 | . 8 7 | 5 . . |
|-------+-------+-------|
| . . . | . . 8 | . . 4 |
| 2 8 7 | . 4 . | . . 9 |
| . . 4 | . 5 . | 7 2 . |
+-----------------------+
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Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
| generic Solution wrote: | <27> UR Type 1 (extraneous)
<5> Sashimi X-Wing
<25+4> XY-Wing (extraneous)
either of 2x 5-cell XY-Chain
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Mogulmeister
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:44 am Post subject: |
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There's an almost RP(25) configuration (*) with the fin being the 9 in r1c3:
If RP(25) true then r5c3<>5
If fin true then (25=9)r1c3-(9=5)r7c3 and r5c3<>5
| Code: | +-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 6 4579 *25+9 | 8 3 *25 | 24 1 57 |
| 578 3457 235 | 2457 1 6 | 248 9 57 |
| 578 457 1 | 2457 27 9 | 248 6 3 |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 4 *25 8 | 1 9 *25 | 3 7 6 |
| 17 17 3-5 | 35 6 4 | 9 8 2 |
| 9 23 6 | 23 8 7 | 5 4 1 |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 15 159 59 | 27 27 8 | 6 3 4 |
| 2 8 7 | 6 4 3 | 1 5 9 |
| 3 6 4 | 9 5 1 | 7 2 8 |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
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JC Van Hay
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 494
Location: Charleroi, Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 5-SIS AIC : (M Wing) [2C3 3C2 (32)R6C2 2B5] (25)R1C6
:::::::::::: : (2)r1c3=(5)r1c6 : => r1c3<>5, r1c6<>2
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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| JC Van Hay wrote: | 5-SIS AIC : (M Wing) [2C3 3R2 (32)R6C2 2B5] (25)R1C6
:::::::::::: : (2)r1c3=(5)r1c6 : => r1c3<>5, r1c6<>2
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JC: Although your solution is correct, this is the third time recently that you've labeled your AIC as (containing?) an "M-Wing" ... and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
Most of us are using the (generalized) version of Keith's definition posted here.
gM-Wing: (Y=X)a - (X)b = (X-Y)r = (Y)s => eliminations for (Y) in peers common to [a] and [s]
How are you getting an M-Wing from your AIC?
Regards, Danny |
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JC Van Hay
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 494
Location: Charleroi, Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Danny, I am certainly confused about the namings.After SSTS and a useless AIC, I noticed that the most promising digits for AICs are 2, 3 and 5 (lot of strengths in location). I therefore first looked for cells containing 2 and 3 and tried an AIC from them. The obtained AIC contains a remote hidden pair (23). That's why I called the AIC snippet containing them "M Wing" even if it doesn't lead directly to an elimination :(M Wing)[(23)R6C2 3R2 2C3] or (2=3)r6c2-r2c2=(3-2)r2c3=r1c3, to model to your recalled notation. I should therefore have written (M Wing) [2C3 3R2 (32)R6C2] 2B5 (25)R1C6 instead.
Calling an AIC an M Wing AIC is thus a way to draw the attention to a contained M Wing snippet. To prevent confusion, I think that AIC with M Wing would be more clear, as in AIC with groups or ALS. I also, may be wrongfully, extended the naming "M Wing" to any AIC snippet on 2 digits only! Thus the posted notation.
In the same line of thought, I generally prefer to call a 3-SIS AIC an XY Wing Style instead of H, (g)M, S, W, Y ... Wings, apart from the reserved names, Naked and Hidden Triples, XY(Z) Wings.
To give an example of such a stretched naming, I had in the same puzzle, from the "hub" cell R1C2 with 3 spokes :"M Wing" XY Wing Style, 9R1 as pivot : 7R1 9R1 (M Wing)[(95)R7C3 5R5 5C6] : (7)r1c9=(5)r1c6 : => r1c9<>5, only 2 singles which sounds less dry than 5-SIS AIC ! Even if the M Wing snippet is not a true M Wing one. This is just "similar" to ALS XY Wing (Style). Final comment : after re-reading Keith's post, I think that the idea I wanted to convey seems similar to the Extended XY Wing (Style) (to take with a grain of salt ...).
Regards, JC |
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| daj95376 wrote: | | How are you getting an M-Wing from your AIC? |
My interpretation of JCs move would be an m-wing(23) with pseudocell
| Code: | (X = Y) - Y =(Y-X) = X
(2=5)r4c6-(5=3)r5c4 - r5c3=(3-2)r2c3=r1c3 ; r1c6<>2 |
Whether that's a correct interpretation of his SIS I am not sure as it only has 4 strong links and JC stated a 5-SIS - but it's how I have been presenting similar moves. |
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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JC Van Hay wrote: | Danny, I am certainly confused about the namings.After SSTS and a useless AIC, I noticed that the most promising digits for AICs are 2, 3 and 5 (lot of strengths in location). I therefore first looked for cells containing 2 and 3 and tried an AIC from them. The obtained AIC contains a remote hidden pair (23). That's why I called the AIC snippet containing them "M Wing" even if it doesn't lead directly to an elimination :(M Wing)[(23)R6C2 3R2 2C3] or (2=3)r6c2-r2c2=(3-2)r2c3=r1c3, to model to your recalled notation. I should therefore have written (M Wing) [2C3 3R2 (32)R6C2] 2B5 (25)R1C6 instead.
Calling an AIC an M Wing AIC is thus a way to draw the attention to a contained M Wing snippet. To prevent confusion, I think that AIC with M Wing would be more clear, as in AIC with groups or ALS. I also, may be wrongfully, extended the naming "M Wing" to any AIC snippet on 2 digits only! Thus the posted notation.
In the same line of thought, I generally prefer to call a 3-SIS AIC an XY Wing Style instead of H, (g)M, S, W, Y ... Wings, apart from the reserved names, Naked and Hidden Triples, XY(Z) Wings.
To give an example of such a stretched naming, I had in the same puzzle, from the "hub" cell R1C2 with 3 spokes :"M Wing" XY Wing Style, 9R1 as pivot : 7R1 9R1 (M Wing)[(95)R7C3 5R5 5C6] : (7)r1c9=(5)r1c6 : => r1c9<>5, only 2 singles which sounds less dry than 5-SIS AIC ! Even if the M Wing snippet is not a true M Wing one. This is just "similar" to ALS XY Wing (Style). Final comment : after re-reading Keith's post, I think that the idea I wanted to convey seems similar to the Extended XY Wing (Style) (to take with a grain of salt ...).
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Thanks JC for the detailed explanation.
I'm locked into a gM-Wing being directional from a bivalue cell. I was just tired enough last night to miss the reverse direction on your flightless M-Wing. I probably would have caught it if you'd written your AIC in the reverse direction:
5-SIS AIC : (52)R1C6 2B5 (M-Wing) [(23)R6C2 3R2 2C3] : (5)r1c6=(2)r1c3 : => r1c3<>5, r1c6<>2
BTW: I like the endpoint synopsis being included in the conclusion.
Thanks also for explaining your use of "XY Wing Style". However, I'll hold off agreeing with your statement, Even if the M-Wing snippet is not a true M-Wing one. At some point, a 3-SIS is just a 3-SIS and nothing more!
Next time, I'll check the reverse direction of your AIC with both eyes open. _  _
Regards, Danny
Peter: Thanks for trying to help, but I believe you are using the wrong cells.
| Code: | +--------------------------------------------------------------+
| 6 4579 a259 | 8 3 g25 | 24 1 57 |
| 578 c3457 b235 | 2457 1 6 | 248 9 57 |
| 578 457 1 | 2457 27 9 | 248 6 3 |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 4 25 8 | 1 9 f25 | 3 7 6 |
| 17 17 35 | 35 6 4 | 9 8 2 |
| 9 d23 6 | e23 8 7 | 5 4 1 |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 15 159 59 | 27 27 8 | 6 3 4 |
| 2 8 7 | 6 4 3 | 1 5 9 |
| 3 6 4 | 9 5 1 | 7 2 8 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
# 45 eliminations remain
2C3 3R2 (32)R6C2 2B5 (25)R1C6
************ ************* ********* *********** *********
(2)r1c3 = (2-3)r2c3 = r2c2 - (3=2)r6c2 - r6c4 = r4c6 - (2=5)r1c6
|<-----------------------------------|
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The first 3-SIS (four cells) in JC's AIC are a flightless M-Wing reading from right-to-left. |
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| daj95376 wrote: | | Peter: Thanks for trying to help, but I believe you are using the wrong cells.. |
Sorry  I'll stick with my m-wing solution then! |
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Mogulmeister
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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After muich prodding about, another AIC - all around 2s and 3s:
(457-3)r2c2=r6c2-(3=2)r6c4-r4c6=r1c6-r1c3=(2-3)r2c3=(3)r2c2; r2c2=3 |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Coloring (5)
XY-Wing (295), flightless with pincer transport |
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