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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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 Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: telegraph 12-10-2010 |
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300200005090003760080009030000602000230000050000800000070500090054100070000006000
| Code: |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 3 . . | 2 . . | . . 5 |
| . 9 . | . . 3 | 7 6 . |
| . 8 . | . . 9 | . 3 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | 6 . 2 | . . . |
| 2 3 . | . . . | . 5 . |
| . . . | 8 . . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 7 . | 5 . . | . 9 . |
| . 5 4 | 1 . . | . 7 . |
| . . . | . . 6 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I did this one on the tube in the newspaper using ink pen - so I was quite pleased to catch this MUG (I think it is anyway) 
Not the shortest path I am sure...
| Code: | *------------------------------------------------------------*
| 3 (46) 7 | 2 68 1 | 9 (48) 5 |
| 15 9 125 | 4 58 3 | 7 6 128 |
| 145 8 1256 | 7 56 9 | (14) 3 124 |
|-------------------+-------------------+--------------------|
| 579 *14 59 | 6 *134 2 | *34+18 14-8 79 |
| 2 3 8 | 9 14 7 | 146 5 146 |
| 479 *14+6 69 | 8 *134 5 | *34+1 2 79 |
|-------------------+-------------------+--------------------|
| 18 7 3 | 5 2 4 | 168 9 168 |
| 6 5 4 | 1 9 8 | 2 7 3 |
| 189 2 19 | 3 7 6 | 5 148 148 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------*
6-Cell MUG(134) r46c257
(6)r6c2 - (6=4)r1c2 - (4=8)r1c8 ; r4c8<>8
(1)r46c7 - (1=4)r3c7 - (4=8)r1c8 ; r4c8<>8
(8)r4c7 ; r4c8<>8 |
I think I used a couple of xy-wings after that... |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| From the posted grid, a Type 4 UR on 79 in boxes 46 will finish things off. R46c1<>9. |
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tlanglet
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2468
Location: Northern California Foothills
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Peter,
Wonderful find. I found the Type 4 UR(79) but missed that wonderful MUG(134).
I believe the only free digits in the MUG are r6c2=4 and r4c7=8. The 1s in r46c7 are part of the MUG and therefore not free digits; you did treat the 1s in r46c5 as part of the MUG.
Ted |
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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| tlanglet wrote: | Peter,
Wonderful find. I found the Type 4 UR(79) but missed that wonderful MUG(134).
I believe the only free digits in the MUG are r6c2=6 and r4c7=8. The 1s in r46c7 are part of the MUG and therefore not free digits; you did treat the 1s in r46c5 as part of the MUG.
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Ted, I thought the same about the 1s in r46c7, but I then spent an hour persuading myself that I was wrong and that Peter was correct. The wrinkle comes in the form of secondary effects on r5c5=14 caused by the X-Wing on <3>. The only way around it is to expand the scope of the DP:
| Code: | *-------------------------------------------------------------*
| 3 (46) 7 | 2 68 1 | 9 (48) 5 |
| 15 9 125 | 4 58 3 | 7 6 128 |
| 145 8 1256 | 7 56 9 | (14) 3 124 |
|-------------------+-------------------+---------------------|
| 579 *14 59 | 6 *134 2 | *134+8 14-8 79 |
| 2 3 8 | 9 *14 7 | *14+6 5 146 |
| 479 *14+6 69 | 8 *134 5 | *134 2 79 |
|-------------------+-------------------+---------------------|
| 18 7 3 | 5 2 4 | 168 9 168 |
| 6 5 4 | 1 9 8 | 2 7 3 |
| 189 2 19 | 3 7 6 | 5 148 148 |
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
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... and then I can't get the stinkin' r5c7=6 to produce r4c8<>8. 
Last edited by daj95376 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tlanglet
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2468
Location: Northern California Foothills
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Since Marty had already posted my initial solution, I made a second pass and found this one step solution.
| Quote: | | ANP(15=4)r23c1-(4=6)r1c2-(6=8)r1c5-(8=5)r2c5*-(5=1)r2c1; r2c3<>5*, r79c1<>1 |
Ted |
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| daj95376 wrote: | | Ted, I thought the same about the 1s in r46c7, but I then spent an hour persuading myself that I was wrong and that Peter was correct. |
The first time I played it as if the 1s were part of the MUG but before I posted it I re-read Myth Jellies et al post on MUG - specifically this post which suggests a MUG is valid if it's an overlay of multiple BUG-Lites.. and seems to rule out the case
| Code: | ab | abc | abc
ab | abc | abc |
whereas
| Code: | ab | abc | bc
ab | abc | bc |
is clearly an overlay of a (ab)UR and (bc(UR).
I still don't really understand this! It would be great if someone could come up with a practical rule for testing a proposed MUG! |
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ronk
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 398
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| peterj wrote: | | It would be great if someone could come up with a practical rule for testing a proposed MUG! |
If a BUG-Lite is the result of all possible reductions of a prospective MUG, whether fully or partially populated, then the prospective MUG is an actual MUG.
| Code: |
A fully populated MUG:
. abc . | . abc . | . abc .
. . . | . . . | . . .
. abc . | . abc . | . abc .
-------------+-------------+-------------
One of its six possible BUG-Lites:
. ab . | . ac . | . bc .
. . . | . . . | . . .
. ab . | . ac . | . bc .
-------------+-------------+------------- |
[edit: Sentence was "If a prospective MUG, whether fully or partially populated, can be reduced to a BUG-Lite, it is an actual MUG."]
Last edited by ronk on Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ronk wrote: | | If a prospective MUG, whether fully or partially populated, can be reduced to a BUG-Lite, it is an actual MUG. |
Thanks, ronk, but surely that is not sufficient?
It is a MUG if valid reductions lead only to one or more BUG-lite/URs?
For example,
| Code: | abc | abc
abc | abc |
is not a MUG. Placing an (a) externally in each column reduces it to a DP.
However, placing an (a) externally in row 1 and an (b) in row 2 produces
and (a) externally in column 1 results in
which is obviously valid?
So if that is right we are still left with having to test all possible reductions of the pattern from external placements to check if they result in a recognisable DP. |
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ronk
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 398
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| peterj wrote: | | ronk wrote: | | If a prospective MUG, whether fully or partially populated, can be reduced to a BUG-Lite, it is an actual MUG. |
Thanks, ronk, but surely that is not sufficient?
...
So if that is right we are still left with having to test all possible reductions of the pattern from external placements to check if they result in a recognisable DP. |
Yes, all possible reductions of a MUG must lead to a BUG-Lite. |
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