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Pat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 207
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: VH — tarek (2007.Dec.23) |
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6....39....4.5.....8.2....7..5.....2.9.....6.3.....1..1....9.4.....1.3....25....8
[ play ] | Code: |
6 . . | . . 3 | 9 . .
. . 4 | . 5 . | . . .
. 8 . | 2 . . | . . 7
-------+-------+------
. . 5 | . . . | . . 2
. 9 . | . . . | . 6 .
3 . . | . . . | 1 . .
-------+-------+------
1 . . | . . 9 | . 4 .
. . . | . 1 . | 3 . .
. . 2 | 5 . . | . . 8
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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I could not find anything simpler than an X-wing and then a UR or another fish.
Keith |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Code: |
+-------------+----------------+--------------+
| 6 27 1 | 478 478 3 | 9 258 45 |
| 27 3 4 | 9 5 678 | 268 28 1 |
| 5 8 9 | 2 46 1 | 46 3 7 |
+-------------+----------------+--------------+
| 478 1 5 | 3 46789 678 | 48 789 2 |
| 2478 9 78 | 1 2478 2578 | 458 6 3 |
| 3 247 6 | 478 24789 2578 | 1 5789 459 |
+-------------+----------------+--------------+
| 1 57 3 | 678 278 9 | 25 4 56 |
| 478 457 78 | 67 1 27 | 3 259 569 |
| 9 6 2 | 5 3 4 | 7 1 8 |
+-------------+----------------+--------------+
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Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
Probably same as Keith. X-Wing on 4 in c49 followed by a Type 2 UR in boxes 28, 78-78-478-478. |
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Pat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| keith wrote: | Please post puzzles that "require" a swordfish.
We'll see what other solution paths there are. |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Pat wrote: |
| keith wrote: | Please post puzzles that "require" a swordfish.
We'll see what other solution paths there are. |
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This one can be done by an X-wing and a UR, or by an X-wing and an XY-wing.
I do not see a swordfish that involves fewer steps.
Maybe Pat is ribbing me over my contention that Swordfish are generally not worth looking for. I stand my ground!
Keith |
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Pat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: |
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right, not fewer steps
X-wing 4
... Swordfish 8 |
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Pat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: |
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you may prefer the 2nd puzzle from tarek's 2007.Dec.23 post —
7....29....8.1.....5.4....6..1.....4.4.....3.2.....5..5....3.9.....7.2....46....1
[ play ] | Code: |
7 . . | . . 2 | 9 . .
. . 8 | . 1 . | . . .
. 5 . | 4 . . | . . 6
-------+-------+------
. . 1 | . . . | . . 4
. 4 . | . . . | . 3 .
2 . . | . . . | 5 . .
-------+-------+------
5 . . | . . 3 | . 9 .
. . . | . 7 . | 2 . .
. . 4 | 6 . . | . . 1
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arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Code: | *-----------------------------------------------------------*
| 7 1 3 |*58 6 2 | 9 4 *58 |
| 4 6 8 | 79 1 579 | 37 257 2357 |
| 9 5 2 | 4 3 78 | 1 78 6 |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| 368 39-8 1 | 2379 589 5789 | 678 278 4 |
| 68 4 5 | 279 89 1 | 678 3 279-8 |
| 2 *389 7 | 39 4 6 | 5 1 *89 |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| 5 27 6 | 1 28 3 | 4 9 7-8 |
| 1 *38 9 |*58 7 4 | 2 6 *358 |
| 38 27 4 | 6 2589 589 | 378 578 1 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------*
swordfish 8r168c249 => -8r57c9r4c2; stte |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Pat,
I'll look at that one.
But, I am not the anti-swordfish guy! It's akin to the USGA allowing only 14 clubs in your golf bag.
http://www.golflink.com/list_8652_golf-clubs-carry-golf-bag.html
What would you choose? Swordfish and higher fishes are probably not high on my list of must-know techniques.
Keith |
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Pat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: |
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suppose the puzzles are filtered
and you know you will only need
"basic" moves + X-wing,Swordfish,Jellyfish
— in that case, looking for fish may be best
. - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . -
the above 2 examples turned out to need just 1 Swordfish;
i have now posted something more exciting |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Maybe Pat is ribbing me over my contention that Swordfish are generally not worth looking for. I stand my ground! |
I'm with Keith on this one, as I have been for years. Nothing against Swordfish of course, but I don't think the risk-reward ratio is very good. I'm open to change if someone can tell a paper-and-pencil solver how to look for them efficiently.
There was a recent exception, perhaps on one of Dan's puzzles, where there were two Swordfish, but I think that puzzle had a grid that was less busy than usual, making them relatively easy to spot. |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: |
+-----------+----------------+--------------+
| 7 1 3 | 58 6 2 | 9 4 58 |
| 4 6 8 | 79 1 579 | 37 257 2357 |
| 9 5 2 | 4 3 78 | 1 78 6 |
+-----------+----------------+--------------+
| 368 389 1 | 2379 589 5789 | 678 278 4 |
| 68 4 5 | 279 89 1 | 678 3 2789 |
| 2 389 7 | 39 4 6 | 5 1 89 |
+-----------+----------------+--------------+
| 5 27 6 | 1 28 3 | 4 9 78 |
| 1 38 9 | 58 7 4 | 2 6 358 |
| 38 27 4 | 6 2589 589 | 378 578 1 |
+-----------+----------------+--------------+
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Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
W-Wing 58 boxes 38
(5=8)r1c9-r7c9=r7c5-(8=5)r8c4=>r1c4<>5 leads to here:
| Code: |
+-----------+-----------+-------------+
| 7 1 3 | 8 6 2 | 9 4 5 |
| 4 6 8 | 9 1 5 | 37 27 237 |
| 9 5 2 | 4 3 7 | 1 8 6 |
+-----------+-----------+-------------+
| 368 389 1 | 27 5 89 | 68 27 4 |
| 68 4 5 | 27 89 1 | 678 3 2789 |
| 2 89 7 | 3 4 6 | 5 1 89 |
+-----------+-----------+-------------+
| 5 27 6 | 1 28 3 | 4 9 78 |
| 1 38 9 | 5 7 4 | 2 6 38 |
| 38 27 4 | 6 289 89 | 378 5 1 |
+-----------+-----------+-------------+
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Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
W-Wing 89 boxes 48
-8r6c2=r4c12-r4c6=r9c6-r7c5=8r7c9=>r6c9<>8 |
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